"Shift24" (the-nope)
07/31/2019 at 10:25 • Filed to: Ohio, 540i, Gx470
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"Shift24" (the-nope)
07/31/2019 at 10:25 • Filed to: Ohio, 540i, Gx470 | 1
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Straight to the point, no real reason with no significant data to support it. I haven’t run one on my dailies for atleast 10 years. Never been bothered.
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I remember big debates over this since I was a kid (90s). And probably happened b efore that but ever since Staties and locals have gotten their way. It’s no secret they are trained to hit 2 main spots with LIDAR, Headlights and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . So that means taking a major target away.
There has been numerous reasons why to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! But its more suggestions and statements than real data. And I would point out a statie from up North stated
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T h e uber one is new though. I have never checked the plates because I was looking f or the car type. B ut I can see others who can’t identify cars and go by numbers. But what prevents you from looking at the rear plate?
As fellow Ohioan @ !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! pointed !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
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This brings up a good point, the only time I have heard anyone be bothered by the lack of a front plate is in rural Ohio . Both times were by a local. So it makes total sense why they would want to keep it, plus it gives the something to do
razorbeamteam
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:28 |
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Creating rules just so you can fine people for breaking them is not a good policy.
Nibby
> razorbeamteam
07/31/2019 at 10:28 |
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creating rules to make more money
Ash78, voting early and often
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:29 |
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Until yesterday’s article , I honestly believed front plates were only for simplifying parking enforcement by not forcing meter maids to walk all around the car in order to write a bunch of tickets. That explained why you see them mostly in states with very large cities and lots of parking issues.
Now with a lot more CCTV, I can see the merit there (for solving crimes) but who’s to say the plate is even real? If I’m committing a crime, the front plate is coming off first (or getting replaced with a fake).
Uber? I guess, but I’m going from the car and driver photos.
Maxima Speed
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:31 |
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I’m so glad it’s gonna be gone. I’m planning on replacing mine with a European style front plate ( still have the holes that the previous owner drilled to hold the plate so I have to have something to cover it). My dad gets away with no front plate (law enforcement cronyism ) but my mom and I can’t. Rural southeastern Ohio.
fintail
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:37 |
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In WA, as long as you have a nice/expensive car, I suspect the law is ignored. I see countless Teslas and higher priced sports cars every day without a front plate.
facw
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:39 |
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But what prevents you from looking at the rear plate?
Nothing, but the front plate is what you see as the car approaches. Looking at the rear plate means waiting for the car to get to you and then walking around back. Certainly not reason enough to keep it on it’s own, but a bit of a nudge that way.
My feeling is the front plates should be mandatory (unless we are going to a system where cars are always tracked, which I don’t support). I’m troubled by the lack of data on both sides though. The anti-plate side’s argument seems to be mostly that they are ugly (or that they don’t want to have holes in their bumper, which is really only an issue if you don’t run a front plate), while the pro-plate side responds with anecdotes about a few times they were useful. As I said on the FP article, given that some states do and some states don’t it seems like it should be possible to get better data on how much of a benefit there actually is.
superdave847
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:40 |
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Another policy reason to require front license plates is the cameras for tollways are facing the front since the transaction happens before the vehicle crosses the threshold.
I have both of my cars registered to the same I-Pass transponder and tolls are by the plates.
ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
> Ash78, voting early and often
07/31/2019 at 10:41 |
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You hit it on the CCTV thing. Only the very worst (as in the very worst at being a criminal) are going to do something in car that tracks back to them. A considerable chunk of vehicle theft is stealing cars for the purpose of committing other crimes and then dumping them as soon as they’re not needed. There’s often a degree of separation in the business. There are often the folks that work stealing the cars, the folks that provide them to other folks for activities and the folks that buy them for activities .
I worked in law enforcement for a time. Granted in a no front- plate state, but I can’t think of an advantage to them other than lazy parking enforcement. I think the odds of reading and recognizing a front plate that’s going 75mph, or even 40mph in the opposite direction of the observer seems unlikely, and there is no scenario where any cop is ever going to approach a car from the front during a traffic stop.
Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:45 |
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Ive been pulled over twice for no front plate, always within the 1st week of driving without it. Illinois sucks
Tripper
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:49 |
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I’m in PA so I don’t have to worry about it, but I have always said that I would do what you do if I moved to a state that required a front plate. Keep it in the car for “if” I get pulled over.
I’m not messing up any of my cars pretty faces for anybody.
I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:58 |
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Also an Ohioan and I know I’ll catch heat for this because honestly, it’s a bad take, but... I like the look of front plates.
Sorry.
Svend
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 10:59 |
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“I worked the road for almost 16 years and cannot think of one occasion where I thought we needed a front bumper license plate. I can only speak for myself,” said Sgt. Michael Church, a spokesman for the Michigan State Police.
1, red light jumping,
2, speeding,
3, tracking a stolen car,
4, tailgaters, etc...
That’s just the top of my head.
I hear some Americans say, ‘well certain cars don’t have front licence plate mounts, so it spoils the front of the car if I have to drill the front bumper to display it’.
Nope. Certain car companies have different mounts for different licence plate styles around the world such as Australia, Japan, Europe, North America, etc... each having slightly different sized or shaped licen ce plates, so you get the mount that is suitable for the plate style in your country.
But what prevents you from looking at the rear plate?
Urgh!
Because something could of blocked your vision as it drove away, you only have half the chance of i dentifying the vehicle, if it hit you, you may of seen it coming but impaired from seeing it going, etc...
AestheticsInMotion
> fintail
07/31/2019 at 11:02 |
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I’ve yet to get any attention, running front plate-less in the Miata for 5 years and in my old mercury for a few.
I know someone who runs ZERO plates on his 3rd gen 4runner, and despite living in Redmond has never been pulled over...
BeaterGT
> Tripper
07/31/2019 at 11:04 |
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I live close to PA so I don’t worry about it.
JeepJeremy
> I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
07/31/2019 at 11:07 |
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Fellow Ohioan and I back your statement. I think automobiles look wrong w/o a front plate.
*super cars/hyper cars are an exception
jimz
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 11:08 |
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honestly you probably wouldn’t be written up for it unless you were already pulled over for a different reason. I’m sure many parts of Ohio get so many Michigan vehicles (no front plate required) coming through that they don’t even blink at a car without a front plate.
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jimz
> Svend
07/31/2019 at 11:10 |
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I don’t see how a front plate would address any of the four things you listed.
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Shift24
> Maxima Speed
07/31/2019 at 11:11 |
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Ye ah agreed, hope it stays gone. I had though about a euro-plate on my BMW but imo looks cleaner without.
And ah ok, yeah its easier to get away with it in a bigger city like Cbus. One of the times some one was hastled was in Athens, so I know they can be picky in the south east
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Shift24
> jimz
07/31/2019 at 11:16 |
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South of i-70 and southeast Ohio are very picky as @Maxima Speed: Needs an Isuzu Impulse RS Right Now! s tated previously.
The two time I was talking about was specifically for the front plate and they were given fix-it tickets.
I have actually been pulled over for speeding and wasnt even talked to about a missing front plate.
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Shift24
> I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
07/31/2019 at 11:21 |
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Hey it’s your opinion dont need to be sorry but my opinion is opposite.
The only time I don’t mind it is if the factory has already put the plate holder in and looks stupid empty. S o if someo ne doesn’t want to take it off, just put the plate on
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Shift24
> razorbeamteam
07/31/2019 at 11:23 |
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Correct, literally the last part of @SnapUndersteer highlights why there is any opposition at all
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Svend
> jimz
07/31/2019 at 11:24 |
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1 and 2, as a camera catching the front of the vehicle will also capture an image of the driver so it goes to the appropriate person (otherwise it’s a case of, ‘well I wasn’t driving, maybe my partner was!’, yes the owness is for the owner of the vehicle to identify who was driving the vehicle if they weren’t but there are those idiots that still try and play the system and refuse) .
3, tracking a stolen car, cameras can identify the vehicle and see into the vehicle (especially as a high proportion of vehicles have tinted rear and rear side windows where even a slight tint could stop a camera identifying an occupants).
4, many people are less likely to note a rear licence plate and remember it as a tailgater gets around you and takes off, likely swerving through the traffic or if you had been taken of the road.
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Shift24
> Svend
07/31/2019 at 11:27 |
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The only one of those that IMO help prevent any of that is tracking a stolen car. Police have plate readers now that will get cars parked or passing by.
But those readers are starting to be questioned for privacy and ethically
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Shift24
> jimz
07/31/2019 at 11:29 |
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Could help with stolen cars as plate readers have been more accurate as a car passes by.
But those have their issues ethically and privacy wise
E90M3
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 11:36 |
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When I was in Texas, I declined to run front plates on either of my BMWs. I would’ve but there was no mounting spot.
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Shift24
> ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
07/31/2019 at 11:50 |
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Very true where cops approach , and my dad and I have been pulled over for other reasons (speeding) and they didn’t even notice there wasn’t front plate.
And yeah the front plate for plate scanners and repos. Which have been suggested the have questionable ethics
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/479436/
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Svend
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 11:50 |
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Police having ANPR is great as it can capture a vehicle in real time, but it also requires a police car to be passing the target vehicle. A vehicle mounted camera will only see what is immediately in front of the camera, a person can pan around and visually search. A front licence plate gives the police camera and/or officer time to see the vehicle, do a quick visual of who’s in the vehicle and manoeuvre to track or stop the vehicle. A vehicle coming towards you with no front plate, you’d only have an idea of what to look for (baring in mind not all police are car enthusiasts), then you’d have to look over your shoulder of if you were two upped your passenger could check the rear licence plate, you are now several seconds delayed in identifying the target vehicle, getting into a position to track or stop the vehicle.
Many speeding and red light cameras can be tracked via CCTV or will alert CCTV operators that the stolen vehicle has been past it.
Those scans are stored in databases and can be searched by license plate number, turning up photos every sighting of a particular vehicle—including the time and location of each sighting. (The utility of such searches is limited by the number of times any one vehicle shows up in a dataset.)
But it’s not just police who use automatic license-plate reading technology. Cameras like these, which usually cost between 20 and 30 thousand dollars, are used to process fees on toll roads across the country, keep track of customers in parking lots and garages, and trawl city streets for cars whose owners are behind on payments and flag the vehicles for repossession.
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It’s not just police.
That is an issue between you, the police and local and/or national go vernment.
The only people who should legally be able to track you are national authorities and local ones to a degree.
Also the U.S. has some states where they can arrest the vehicle or licence of a person who isn’t paying child support, local taxes. Let me be clear, this is wrong. If the person needs their vehicle to earn money to pay bills, how are they going to pay those bills you want them to pay if they have no (or greatly reduced or more expensive) means to doing so.
Police, too, have used license-plate readers heavily in low-income areas.
Lets not sugar coat this, areas of very low income are known to frequent law breaks. mainly because they are trying to get money any way they can to live as medium income and high income areas are less likely to be driven to those actions.
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Maxima Speed
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 11:54 |
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Athens is a full of hard- nosed tyrants. I drive passed it everyday and have to go 55 mph on the four- lane for about 5 miles. Rest of the speed limit in that road is 60 mph but they’ve cut the speed limit and patrol it like sharks.
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Shift24
> E90M3
07/31/2019 at 11:57 |
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Alot of people get tow hook attachments or in the case of an RX8 I saw, placed on the passenger sun visor.
So I get the opposition saying there is no real reason you can’t run a front plate.
But to your point if it's not on there from the factory I wouldn't/haven't bothered
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Shift24
> Maxima Speed
07/31/2019 at 12:03 |
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Hate that, is it posted that there is a speed change? I know some places it just drops (up here near marysville 70 to 65 though understandable with town traffic ) with out warning.
Though at 60 to 55 is BS just to pin you. I’m normally 5mph over and if you don’t notice the drop bam 10 over. Especially on a 4 lane there is no reason it's not 65...
UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 12:11 |
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I haven’t ran a plate on my ST in Cincinnati at all. My girlfriend doesn’t run one either.
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E90M3
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 12:14 |
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I got a tow hook one for the M3, but it seemed like the plate was going to fall off, so I elected to run without it.
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Shift24
> UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy
07/31/2019 at 12:24 |
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Yep when I went to UC, I was never hastled around campus or in the burbs with my Camaro not having a front plate.
Though of any of the main cities, 3 Cs, Toledo, and Dayton, Cincinnati police seemed the most laid back.
In talking with some near campus and the multiple times I have blitzed by them on 71 near Norwood, it seems they were aiming for someone bigger.
The south west part of the state is pretty chill overall but they don't have shit to do in Dayton.
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fintail
> AestheticsInMotion
07/31/2019 at 12:37 |
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Maybe you’re lucky? I’d probably get pulled over in 5 mins.
But, I am in Bellevue in a MB, so there might be some immunity. I don’t care one way or the other about front plates though, as my cars aren’t changed much with or without.
i86hotdogs
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 12:42 |
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I’m for front plates as long as everyone uses the “Ohio Beef” vanity plate.
2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 12:58 |
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I found no reason to not run a front plate since most cars in the state have the mounts already and they give you the fronts anyway, but if I had a more aesthetically pleasing car I probably would not
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Shift24
> i86hotdogs
07/31/2019 at 13:04 |
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Nah let me put this on a Prius
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Maxima Speed
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 13:07 |
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Yes it’s posted at both ends and in the middle.
VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 13:56 |
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I live in a no front plate state, but travel to a front plate required state all the time. The only real case I see for using it is rideshares, because most Uber/Lyft drivers drive similar makes and models and they all come to the airports at the same time frames.
So when I’m looking for a generic black Altima or silver Prius and there are like a half dozen floating around, it’s helpful to know what the plate is before the guy passes you on the kerb since he’s not usually looking in his mirror.
It’s annoying when I fly back home and it takes an extra level of scrutiny to figure out who my ride is, but I’m not going to rank that convenience with some kind of “required” thing. It’s a nice to have at best. Otherwise, I think the MVD here saves money only sending one plate out (they started doing that recently) and all the Orwellian cameras take front and rear shots of your car if you’re speeding or red light running so... meh?
I don’t mind rocking a front plate at all, I don’t see the big issue, but I’m not going to oppose single plate.
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Shift24
> 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered
07/31/2019 at 14:03 |
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The GX came from a no front plate state (NC). The 540i had a bumper swap, and the camaro just looked stupid with it.
But if its already there and you don’t want to take it off, I 100% get having a plate as it looks better with a plate than just an empty slot.
RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 18:52 |
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Front license plates aren’t required in my province of Nova Scotia up here in MapleSyrupland, but several other provinces and territories require them. Many don’t though...
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UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy
> Shift24
07/31/2019 at 22:22 |
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I remember at UC when I was there for the first time I was drinking on the sidewalk at a SigEp party (I was a senior in HS visiting friends from home who went there, I also ended up going to UC) and the cops slow rolled and didn’t care. It ended up being that way the whole time through school. Even last week I was riding up 71 before Dana Ave exit (where cops are almost always sitting, might be the same spot you’re thinking of) and two dudes on streetfighters were ripping it and nothing happened. I was glad I didn’t catch up to ride with them thinking they’d get pulled but they didn’t.
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Shift24
> UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy
08/02/2019 at 00:28 |
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That sounds about right and actually right near Dana and then further up where it changes from 55 to 65 (forget the exit Kenwood?).
The best is they never s it coming down the hill past the BMW store, red bank. They could easily get people left and right not watching their speed.
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UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy
> Shift24
08/02/2019 at 13:17 |
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I’ve seen a cop there once and that’s it. Other than that you are so right. Coming down the mountains on I26 south of Asheville they did that. They had an unmarked doing the radar on an overpass and 4 cops at the bottom waiting (3 were pulled). Funny thing was I was conscious of the fact, had a discussion right before with my GF about if they were ever at the bottom of the hill they could shoot fish in a barrel so I drove carefully . Luckily I also saw the unmarked, you wouldn’t really know why a car was chilling there doing nothing unless you knew that the only chargers with hubcaps were police issue.
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Shift24
> UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy
08/02/2019 at 22:31 |
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Yeah I got caught in Ashland KY coming down hill... but that’s why I am glad Ohio has the marking law for traffic enforcement. (No unmarked cars for traffic) and has to be visible.
None of that hiding or speed traps with unmarkeds
Textured Soy Protein
> ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
11/07/2019 at 13:15 |
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I’m not a law enforcement person, but it’s my understanding that front license plates provide a nice flat reflective surface for LIDAR speed guns, and that’s one of the big reasons states require them .
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Textured Soy Protein
> Svend
11/07/2019 at 13:16 |
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Many factory mounts require drilling into bumpers. For example, my E92 BMW has a totally smooth plastic front bumper and came with the factory front plate mount that attached with self-tapping screws. I removed the front plate mount and filled the holes with paint-matched plastic plugs that look somewhat like parking sensors.
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Textured Soy Protein
> E90M3
11/07/2019 at 13:18 |
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Most BMW factory plate mounts drill into the bumper.
When I got my 135is from Zimbrick BMW in Madison, they never attached front plate mounts to their cars until time of delivery, and then asked if you wanted it or to roll without. It was required in Wisconsin but hardly enforced.
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ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
> Textured Soy Protein
11/07/2019 at 13:51 |
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“aim for the front plate (or where is would be)“ is a common training method for Lidar. It makes a nice thing to aim at, but from my experience it is in now way actually needed. You can aim it at any part of the car or cyclist and you’ll get a return once it’s in range.
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Svend
> Textured Soy Protein
11/07/2019 at 15:54 |
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Yeah. Some factory mounts come as you say because different countries have different sized licence plates, even in America different areas can have slightly different sized plates, hell Puerto Rice has European size plates.
Which looks a little odd on a U.S. model specific vehicle.
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